Comments on: Developer testing with the Testivus Manifestivus

By: Rob Breidecker

Rob Breidecker — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:43:32 +0000

Great post Alex. The “Testivus” post is excellent as well. Great find.

I’ve been thinking about what you said in regards to a TDD and if is a good thing or not. It seems like Web applications might make good candidates for TDD, because the underlying platform and architecture are well know and proven. Typical Web applications use the MVC design pattern and some combinations of service and data access layers. All of this is well know and understood by most developers. In these applications, it is really the business logic and domain model that need to be fleshed out. So it seems like TDD would work well here. However, for other applications where the underlying architecture has not been designed, I can see where TDD might not work or lead to poor design.

One more thought. In a business environment with a large number of Web applications, maybe because of the fact that the platform and architecture are well understood, I am willing to live with less than optimal design, in order to get a large number of tests and a high percentage of code coverage. I’m not sure I would make that compromise with other less understood, highly complex software.

By: Alberto Savoia

Alberto Savoia — Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:40:01 +0000

>I’ve spent a larger chunk of time than I care to admit >writing testing automation in some form or another. >Even so, I know that every time (and I mean 100%) >I’ve automated something, it paid for itself. Sometimes >it took weeks or months, but it ALWAYS paid for >itself. If you’re on the fence about whether to >automate something (database reset, integration >testing, test scripts, etc), then just do it and trust it’ll >be worth it.

Hi Alex,

I am glad you liked the Testivus idea. It did start as a sort of joke (could not resist to do something with the “Testivus for the rest of us” phrase), but behind it there’s some serious concern about the fact that most developers are scared off by TDD and some of the other, more dogmatic, movements.

Anyway, the reason I am writing to you is that you really hit the nail on the head when you said that EVERYTIME you’ve automated some tests it was worth your while. So, with your permission, I’d like to add that concept to the Manifestivus. I tried to capture the idea with testing karma, but your way is more explicit: test automation always pays off.

Thanks and happy coding/testing.

Alberto

By: Jason Sankey

Jason Sankey — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:51:42 +0000

Hi Alex,

Good post. I feel your frustration at trying to convince devs that tests are a Good Thing. We are naturally skeptical types and don’t like having things pushed in our faces. However, if more devs would just try it and get that “feeling” I know they would be infected.

I also like your point about automation paying off. Every time I finally get around to automating something, I just wish I had done it sooner!