Comments on: The future of Java on Macs http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/ Alex Miller's technical blog Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:04:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Peter Kirn http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12527 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:36:03 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12527 It's interesting that, for all the criticism of Java, no one questions the idea that the Cocoa and Carbon frameworks have ANY future outside the Mac. The honest truth is, a lot of Mac development is cautious about just how much Cocoa gets used. And those doing cross-platform development start out with cross-platform libraries from the start. I think Java cross-platform development for the desktop is FAR more likely than Cocoa. Meanwhile, I keep hearing buzz that in fact Java 6 is completely derailed: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/31/rumor-mac-javas-demise-is-real-and-why-that-could-be-good-news-for-multimedia/ That's fine with me. There are lots of good reasons for a push for desktop Java, and plenty Java can do that a) Flash/Flex/AIR can't or b) Java can do more easily than C++ development can, depending on the job. It seems like the desktop is going to have *more* rich clients in the future, not less. But the company to make that play happen is obviously Sun (and the OpenJDK community), not Apple. So, for the time being, the Mac remains just fine for Java 5 deployment, and we can hope that Sun finds a way to finally get development of JDK back in their court and out of Apple's. It’s interesting that, for all the criticism of Java, no one questions the idea that the Cocoa and Carbon frameworks have ANY future outside the Mac. The honest truth is, a lot of Mac development is cautious about just how much Cocoa gets used. And those doing cross-platform development start out with cross-platform libraries from the start. I think Java cross-platform development for the desktop is FAR more likely than Cocoa.

Meanwhile, I keep hearing buzz that in fact Java 6 is completely derailed:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/31/rumor-mac-javas-demise-is-real-and-why-that-could-be-good-news-for-multimedia/

That’s fine with me. There are lots of good reasons for a push for desktop Java, and plenty Java can do that a) Flash/Flex/AIR can’t or b) Java can do more easily than C++ development can, depending on the job.

It seems like the desktop is going to have *more* rich clients in the future, not less. But the company to make that play happen is obviously Sun (and the OpenJDK community), not Apple. So, for the time being, the Mac remains just fine for Java 5 deployment, and we can hope that Sun finds a way to finally get development of JDK back in their court and out of Apple’s.

]]> by: napyfab:blog» Blog Archive » links for 2007-10-31 http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12478 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:33:14 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12478 [...] Alex Miller - The future of Java on Macs (tags: java apple mac osx future development programming) [...] […] Alex Miller - The future of Java on Macs (tags: java apple mac osx future development programming) […]

]]> by: Robert http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12472 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:29:18 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12472 Ah sorry then, I misunderstood you. I also think Apple is going to come out with Java6 just like they have delivered before. Even if they didn't, I would fire up Parallels and use it on another OS in a VM. Give up my mac though? Not bloody likely. : ) The RoR and Python stuff was handled mostly OUTSIDE of Apple but with an Apple Techie along. The reason Perl wasn't included was the developer for CamelBones didn't make the timeline. Ah sorry then, I misunderstood you. I also think Apple is going to come out with Java6 just like they have delivered before. Even if they didn’t, I would fire up Parallels and use it on another OS in a VM. Give up my mac though? Not bloody likely. : )

The RoR and Python stuff was handled mostly OUTSIDE of Apple but with an Apple Techie along. The reason Perl wasn’t included was the developer for CamelBones didn’t make the timeline.

]]> by: Alex http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12470 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:21:32 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12470 RoR is hot, Java's not. Raises the priority. Plus, I think you're right that porting a JVM is way more work than just including some RoR gems which already existed and worked - just a packaging and testing issue I would think. RoR is hot, Java’s not. Raises the priority. Plus, I think you’re right that porting a JVM is way more work than just including some RoR gems which already existed and worked - just a packaging and testing issue I would think.

]]> by: Blair Zajac http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12469 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:15:56 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/10/31/the-future-of-java-on-macs/#comment-12469 I too was disappointed not seeing Java 6 available. But to your point about engineering resources, Apple took the time to put the Ruby on Rails stack in 10.5, which while web related, will be less likely used then Java applications running on the Desktop. So maybe they added RoR for the coolness factor, since no-non developer will ever use that. RoR was probably a much easier port then Java 6 would, since everybody's already running RoR on 10.4 and its well known how to do so. I too was disappointed not seeing Java 6 available.

But to your point about engineering resources, Apple took the time to put the Ruby on Rails stack in 10.5, which while web related, will be less likely used then Java applications running on the Desktop.

So maybe they added RoR for the coolness factor, since no-non developer will ever use that.

RoR was probably a much easier port then Java 6 would, since everybody’s already running RoR on 10.4 and its well known how to do so.

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