Comments on: Log level philosophy http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/ Alex Miller's technical blog Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:34:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Tims Blog » Blog Archive » Whoops http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-35143 Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:00:54 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-35143 [...] log level philosophy [...] […] log level philosophy […]

]]> by: Brian Hartin http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34683 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:27:10 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34683 I would add TEST, because it's nice to be able to log messages that only appear in the logs created during unit/other automated testing, and are readily identifiable as such (i.e. grep/searching for 'level: TEST', etc.). I would add TEST, because it’s nice to be able to log messages that only appear in the logs created during unit/other automated testing, and are readily identifiable as such (i.e. grep/searching for ‘level: TEST’, etc.).

]]> by: Bill Shirley http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34660 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:04:07 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34660 I totally agree. One clarification I would add (which you may or mayn't agree with) is that normal situations can throw exceptions, but they must be caught (your password case). Exceptions are a programmatic mechanism for stealing the execution away from the current location, are perfectly valid for doing so, but in such cases must be caught. (And reported as an appropriate level log if applicable.) I totally agree. One clarification I would add (which you may or mayn’t agree with) is that normal situations can throw exceptions, but they must be caught (your password case). Exceptions are a programmatic mechanism for stealing the execution away from the current location, are perfectly valid for doing so, but in such cases must be caught. (And reported as an appropriate level log if applicable.)

]]> by: Alex http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34649 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:17:05 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34649 Regarding, open source v proprietary I don't think there's much of a difference but it's an interesting question. I think in both cases, there should be instructions on how to turn on debug logging. It's one of my pet peeves that this is such a PITA on so many open source libs. Even in the proprietary world, it's quite common for other teams, field, or customers to need to turn on debug logging so it should be straightforward for them as well. Regarding internationalization, your question was very clear to me. In fact, I've <a href="http://tech.puredanger.com/2007/07/12/should-i-localize-log-messages/" rel="nofollow">wrestled with this exact question here before</a>. Lots of good comments on that entry. Generally, my default answer would be that it's not worth it to do that as (like it or not) English tends to be the lingua franca between programmers. It's both way more costly (in money and/or time) and way more complicated. So, unless there were some really strong other reason, I would avoid it. Regarding, open source v proprietary I don’t think there’s much of a difference but it’s an interesting question. I think in both cases, there should be instructions on how to turn on debug logging. It’s one of my pet peeves that this is such a PITA on so many open source libs. Even in the proprietary world, it’s quite common for other teams, field, or customers to need to turn on debug logging so it should be straightforward for them as well.

Regarding internationalization, your question was very clear to me. In fact, I’ve wrestled with this exact question here before. Lots of good comments on that entry.

Generally, my default answer would be that it’s not worth it to do that as (like it or not) English tends to be the lingua franca between programmers. It’s both way more costly (in money and/or time) and way more complicated. So, unless there were some really strong other reason, I would avoid it.

]]> by: Randall http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34645 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:57:38 +0000 http://tech.puredanger.com/2008/03/25/log-levels/#comment-34645 My internationalization question above wasn't too clear. Let me try it again. Internationalizing logs is technically not difficult. My question surrounds whether its appropriate to internationalize finer-grained logging (DEBUG and TRACE)? Having extra messages expands the localization effort. And TRACE is really just extensions of the codebase, and you really have to have the code (which is generally in English and not internationalized) to use TRACE messages. DEBUG is arguably like TRACE, but could be used by users to help understand behavior (and unexpected behavior). My internationalization question above wasn’t too clear. Let me try it again.

Internationalizing logs is technically not difficult. My question surrounds whether its appropriate to internationalize finer-grained logging (DEBUG and TRACE)? Having extra messages expands the localization effort. And TRACE is really just extensions of the codebase, and you really have to have the code (which is generally in English and not internationalized) to use TRACE messages. DEBUG is arguably like TRACE, but could be used by users to help understand behavior (and unexpected behavior).

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